Hi All:
It was really nice to meet you all last thursday, fantastic turn out I hope we can keep it up.
Maybe Martha would be kind enough to send us the snaps she took.
Regarding the Next meet up, can we say the 5th of March in the same place.
The proposed topics are Testing (or was it TDD?) and Mocking frameworks.
Please comment on proposed date and topics. Cheers
5 Comments
Thanks for the session. Refactoring Wetware is on my wishlist.
I also put some refs to DDD blog series in the comments to the last post.
Thought it was going to be second Thursday? (it doesnt make any diff to me tho)
re Testing/TDD as the topic, for me you need to pin down the topic as both are pretty broad:
Testing
TDD
why TDD? to support refactoring? confidence? ability to change? design? get rid of need for test team?
what is a reasonable coverage target? Does it matter?
TDD anti-patterns
selling TDD
starting TDD blockers
TDD techniques
TDD tools
mocking/Type [of] Mocking
I’d go for “why TDD” with some anti patterns
Then you can start talking about selling
The doing for me comes after the motivation sessions
I think the context needs to be set first, and some idea of whether we’re going to do 1 session on it and come back or maybe do two in a row. I guess we can do an overview and the rest will expand out in the discussion.
But I’m not the one giving the talk, so I’ll shut up now!
Well, we definitely suggested discussing TDD, comparing mocking frameworks, and dealing with legacy code (and “legacy” teams
).
I agree with you, Thursday was a blast and I’m looking forward to our next meeting.
The 5th at The Duke is ok by me, btw.
(Ooop, it looks like Ruben posted at the same time as me..with a much better comment
)
Excellent DDD links btw.
Ruben, I’m glad you are looking at getting the book I mentioned during our Dreyfus model discussion.
Here is the link to the concept map I drafted and shared based on my current understanding of the model: http://pix.ie/cperrone/830871/size/1200
In case anyone is wondering about it, the book is: “Pragmatic Thinking and Learning: Refactor Your Wetware” ( http://www.pragprog.com/titles/ahptl/pragmatic-thinking-and-learning ).
Regarding the TDD topics, you are giving good ideas for discussion. Different people will have different skill levels and may need a broader perspective (so “why tdd and anti-patterns could be good).
I know a few “TDD reclutant” people who will possibly attend and may put our blind faith on test
I would definitely suggest books and specific skill development paths.
)
Thank you for volunteering on giving the talk (just kidding…there is no official talk…just beer and discussion
re Books,
I’m read the Beck[1] book, the Newkirk/Vorontsov[2] book and Feathers[3]. I’ve had the opportunity to read Meszaros[4], but its size and the fact that I had other stuff ahead of it in the queue means I havent read it yet.
The Feeathers book is a Must Buy, and the one to buy if you only want one book.
The Beck book is excellent, and has a low page count and really gets some key concepts across.
I’d probably skip Newkirk/Vorontsov if I was looking for one to cut even though some people rate it highly.
I read them in [2],[3],[1] order but would ideally read them in [1],[3] order.
Other books that hit the topic even if its not their primary topic are Seguin[5] and Martin/Martin[6]. These both fit in with the general aim of understanding what TDD fits in with and the whole bigger picture.
re other resources such as podcasts, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/387326/unit-testing-videos-or-pod-casts/388485#388485 has a list of podcasts & general resources.
re test reluctance, the more the merrier. Some even came out as test reulctant in the pub in the after session, so I think there should be plenty fodder for a productive discussion
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Addison-Wesley-Signature/dp/0321146530/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234785788&sr=8-1
[2] http://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Microsoft-NET-Professional/dp/0735619484/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234785788&sr=8-3
[3] http://www.amazon.com/xUnit-Test-Patterns-Refactoring-Addison-Wesley/dp/0131495054/ref=pd_bbs_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234785788&sr=8-10
[4] http://www.amazon.com/Working-Effectively-Legacy-Robert-Martin/dp/0131177052/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234785906&sr=8-1
[5] http://codebetter.com/blogs/karlseguin/archive/2008/06/24/foundations-of-programming-ebook.aspx
[6] http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Patterns-Practices-Robert-Martin/dp/0131857258/ref=pd_sim_b_15
Hi there, I only ended up getting about ten photos that came out (was a bit dark in there), but they’re shared out here: http://flickr.com/photos/martharotter/sets/72157614037714073/
Ruben, thanks for that pointer to the podcasts on stackoverflow – good link! I liked the Beck book as well when I was first getting into Agile & TDD.
Also – a quick shameless plug for you to vote on Andrea’s and other alt.net talks you’d like to see at DDD Belfast: http://www.developerdeveloperdeveloper.com/belfastpreview/Users/VoteForSessions.aspx
See you all at the next one in March.
–Martha